What makes the 10mm round not as good of a man stopper as a .45 ACP, .40 S&W and 9mm?

Question

What makes the 10mm round not as good of a man stopper as a .45 ACP, .40 S&W and 9mm?

Answer 1

NEVER go by what the government uses to determine if something is good or not...most government purchases have as much or more to do with politics than practicality

Answer 2

the 10mm is older than the 40 S&W



The 10mm does indeed produce more energy than the 45 acp and 40S&W and is a TOP NOTCH man stopper...well as much as any handgun can be. (Shot placement trumps cartridge power of course)



The reason the 10mm isn't more popular is because it recoils harder than most people can handle, and the cartridge itself puts a lot of wear and tear on the frame of the gun.



In fact, the FBI, the ones most interested in the 10mm, started downloading the 10mm due to agent complaints. It got to the point were Smith and Wesson said 'hey, they have downloaded the 10mm so far we could match it with a much smaller overall package



That is how the 40 S&W was born (.40 inches = 10mm)

Answer 3

This is going to ba a long answer..... Sorry.



It's not that the 10mm isn't as good a man stopper (with proper ammunition)



The 10mm was selected by the FBI for use in the field, their Firearms Training Unit "concluded that its recoil was excessive in terms of training for average agent/police officer competency of use and qualification," and the pistols that chambered it were too large for some small-handed individuals.



The FBI's tests revealed that a 180gr 10mm bullet, propelled between 900-1000 fps, achieved desired terminal performance without the heavy recoil associated with conventional 10mm ammunition (1300-1400 fps). The FBI contacted Smith & Wesson and requested it to design a handgun to FBI specifications, based on the existing large-frame S&W 4506 .45 ACP handgun, that would reliably function with the FBI's reduced velocity 10mm ammunition. During this collaboration with the FBI, S&W realized it could shorten the 10mm case enough to fit within its medium-frame 9mm handguns and load it with a 180gr JHP bullet to produce ballistic performance identical to the FBI's reduced velocity 10mm cartridge. S&W then teamed with Winchester to produce a new cartridge, the .40 S&W. It uses a small pistol primer whereas the 10mm cartridge uses a large pistol primer.



The .40S&W cartridge debuted in January 1990 but their pistols (4006) took a few months to hit the shelves. Glock in the meantime beat the S&W's to the shelves and the rest is history.

(But that's the topic of another question)



**To summarize, the 10mm reduced recoil load is an excellent man stopper but the same results can be had with the 40S&W round in a smaller and easier to manage pistol**



As far as law enforcement agencies go it makes sense to have one gun to train with. They couldn't do that with the 10mm. It's the same reason that most law enforcement agencies don't use the .45acp either.

Answer 4

You are misinformed if you doubt the 10mm is not a good man stopper.



You are correct in most of your thinking comparing it to a .45 ACP except the 10mm is of slightly smaller diameter. It's close to .41 caliber.



But everything else is pretty much correct. People have already mentioned the FBI's failed use of it. wikipedia.com actually tells its whole story quite well. Check it out some time.

Answer 5

I dont believe that for a second. As far as 10mm not being used for LE or military weapons, its still fairly new to the market. NATO isnt big on change, everything is kept consistant. It also has a lot of recoil, which is likely a big factor. A military sidearm has to fit everyone, so a big 10mm could be very hard for smaller members to handle well.

Answer 6

I agree with the posters that point-out that the 10mm was indeed a powerful pistol cartridge. The only problem was, it was too powerful for most handguns.



Smith & Wesson had gotten a contract from the FBI to make the new standard issue FBI pistol - in 10mm. The only problem was that the guns were literally shooting loose and encountering multiple parts breakages. A handgun that breaks when firing it is not much use to anyone in a gunfight. So, S&W went back to the drawing board, decided to simply cut the 10mm cartridge down by a few millimeters and rename the shortened round the 40 S&W (clever of them to name the cartridge after the company, eh?). It's just a shame they never could get their original 10mm handguns to function without breaking with the more powerful 10mm round.

Answer 7

The 10mm auto is much more powerful than any of those other rounds you mentioned. Especially when using Doubletap Ammo or Buffalo Bore loads.

Answer 8

Its all made up. A full house 10mm outclasses all of those other rounds mentioning in energy and velocity. The 10mm is a hunting round, the others, are not.

Answer 9

10mm hasnt been around as long as the 45cal plus most people that buy10mm uses the wrong ammo for self defense-letme give u a quick education on what i mean 10mm shoots 115g125g135g155g165g170g175g180g200g220g230g grain bulletts each grain has a purpose for use;no other rd offers this many options also if you buy 135g from underwood then 135 from hornaday even though same grain they will perform differntly=becuase of speed factors most people wont look into it nor have the mind to see why that is--now i will say this even the watered down ammo in some cases depending on the grain bullet you use can be a plus especially in the higher grain range of 10mm for self defense! also ammo isnot an issue becuase all of you are reading this on a computer and you can order it on line call on a phone and theyll deliver it to you even if you live in tinbuctoo right to your door--now the 45acp been in several wars so it has it reputation but i wouldnt use that if i lived in a crack neighborhood id have the 45 longcolt though that marshall mcclould now thats a man killer stopper do i get an amen for that one?So my point is dont be ignorant bout the 10mm it has much more glamore than meets the eye/this next comment is for those who are fast with the mouth and slow in the brains dont use 180g for self defense a 155g 135g 125g 115g these will stop a man where he took his last step on this earth

Answer 10

Actually you are correct, the 10mm hits with more energy than teh .45 ACP, .40 S&W and the 9mm Luger. It very closely matches the ballistics of the .41 Remington Mag.



It is also true that the caliber was too powerful. The 10mm semiautos were accurate and they hit very hard but the recoil was difficult to handle and the muzzle jump caused even the best marksman to take too much time getting back on target between shots.



The .40 S&W was the answer to correct the 10mm issue, they simply shortened the 10mm case to create a .40 caliber round that everyone could handle.

Answer 11

Stan,



I see you understand "government" and weapons expert are two different animals. The 10mm is a better fight stopper than the calibers you mention, even in the medium load used by the FBI. In heavy loads it approaches or equals the power of the .41 magnum. So that solidifies it as a man stopper. Understand that the FBI is about PC and liability. It is more important to shoot bullets that can't cause collateral damage (over penetration), which can get them bad publicity, than providing an agent with a bullet that will drop any man. Unfortunately, this thinking found its way on to many police departments, and is still alive and well today. Then you have the pentagon who is more about budget and realize how much money they save by staying with the 9mm. Of course this involves ball ammo, as the use of hollow points might make us look like barbarians to the rest of the world.



Now for the cold hard facts. The 10mm was the last attempt by handgun expert, Jeff Cooper (rest his soul), the man who made the 1911 a household name, to provide law enforcement with a controllable and adequate man stopper, unfortunately the effort was wasted on the FBI. Until the mid 1970's the big handguns were all over law enforcement. Some even issued the .41 magnum. Then federal law made it illegal to hire law enforcement based on height and weight (and strength). This same practice has effected the military. These small people, with small hands (both genders) could not operate the big handguns and thus caliber development went backward. The only positive to it is that researchers have developed some pretty good ammo in the lesser calibers. So in a nutshell the little people can't handle the big guns, so the 10mm issue was settled by developing the .40 caliber, which is nothing more than a 10mm short. Hope I have provided you with a new avenue of thought.

Answer 12

For capacity and energy the 10mm Glock 20, 15 rounds at near 1300fps and 650 ft.lbs. For availability and next best thing in power go for a 45 ACP, if your hands are big enough a Para Ordnance 13-45 will near match the Glock for capacity and they are well made guns. 40S&W (or Short and Wimpy) is better than 9mm for both power and stopping ability but isn't a near match to either the 10mm or 45. I have both the 10mm and a 45 Kimber, the Kimber is a lovely gun but the Glock is a tool for putting holes in things. Like a Stanley hammer, it isn't the poshest thing you can buy but it is solid and reliable and I if I needed something that I could rely on then that's what I'd pick out of the safe. I use Winchester Silver Tip ammo, 175gr hollowpoints. Most manufacturers are loading 10mm down to less than 40S&W standards, so be very careful what you buy. In 11 years of shooting a Glock 20 I have never had a failure with 10mm ammo. I have a 40S&W barrel I use for practice, that has had two failures, both on badly manufactured ammo and both were failures to chamber malformed bullets. Everyone who shoots my Glock loves the 10mm, but ammo is expensive. It's not quite as powerful as the most powerful 357 magnums, but you get 16 rounds instead of 6 and it's a close call. Still, 45ACP is cheaper to shoot and you'll never go into a gun store in the US and find they don't have it.

Answer 13

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I prefer the .45acp in 1911 springfield GI, its a cheap no frills gun and is accurate for combat and has never failed me yet, before that I owned a few older colt 1911, my favorite was the officer model but now I have the champion model. The 1911s are easy to point, comfortable and concealable due to the single stack and don't have a big kick. Some 9mms i have shot have had worse kick and muzzle flip. Also, the .45 can penetrate especially with some of the lighter loads coming out, penetration was never an issue when transferring all the weight of the .230 grains to the target whereas a 9mm or .40 might whistle through. But, it depends what you can shoot good. If you don't carry your gun do to weight or recoil that is an issue. The next one would be .40 s&w, it is a great round and duplicates the reduced 10mm loads the FBI was using. It offer more power than a 9mm and bridges a gap between the .45 and 9mm in the semi-auto segment, it also fits into pistols made for 9mm. However if you have a 9mm retooled parts will wear out faster. And generally makers just upgrade their 9mm designs and as such some have failings after lots of rounds fired. I have had stuff fail even on the Glock that everyone seems to recommend. It is still a reliable pistol and this only after lots of rounds and it wasn't a major failure. 10mm is a little too hot for concealed carry or defensive use, it is a great round and a manstopper but has recoil and the glock is harder to control in that caliber. Most guns are harder for the newer handgunner to control due the recoil and lots of factory loads are loaded down to even sub .40s&w levels. It is a bit more expensive for ammo too. Plus, I think the .45 does everything this gun does for self-defense, except the 10mm shines more for hunting. I just think you don't need all that power or penetration, i want that energy to stay in the target. The classic 9mm that has been made popular by the likes of Glock and Beretta is a great round and even better than ever with the good rounds available, but the .45 I can control nice and prefer it over the 9mm. The 9mm gives you mild recoil in some pistols like the hi-power but others it can have worse recoil than my 1911 .45 which some regard as bad, I don't know if they every shot one. It all depends on your comfortability and what you trust your life with. I usually say carry the best gun you can shoot while tolerating carrying it, because comfort carrying isn't important as comfort shooting. Getting 3 9mms off accurately and fast is better than 1 10mm or missing with a .40 pistol you aren't used to firing because of the recoil. But if you can handle the 10mm and use it well in combat situations then more power to ya. But I prefer the good ole .45acp never let me down yet.

Answer 14

Its not too powerful. Maybe not powerful enough to make a difference.

It maybe too big.-dia wise. It has roughly a little more power than the 45- not much. Ballistics wise its close to the 357mag/sig. Much of the data gathered on "man-stopping power" was accumulated over years of actual shootings. There is no data for the 10 mm that says its better. Bigger and more powerful is not always the best thing. The US gov't has decided that the 9 mm is sufficient as the issue sidearm- and they use ball ammo. To switch to a bigger round would be an astronomical cost. Plus it could place the troops at a disadvantage with heavier and less capacity weapons-for not much more power.

The 9, 40, and 45 show no effective difference in disabling a combatant. The 10 mm would not make enough difference to measure.

Answer 15

Well the .40 S&W is actually a 10mm cut down, So that proves those people wrong right there. A .45 ACP is a well known man stopper since it was developed and a 9mm and .40 S&W deliver about the same amount of ft-lbs of energy on impact.

Answer 16

10mm Round

Answer 17

ok, the 10mm auto is faster and is longer(by only 2mm) then the .45 ACP, but it's not superior because of bullet diameter(10mm < 11.43mm) and capable bullet weights(diameter likely contributes to this too).

if the army found something more powerful then the .45 ACP in a smaller and lower recoil package, they would have used it by now, believe me.

Answer 18

1

Answer 19

The tried, true, tested and proved to be the Best No-nonsense Man Stopper is the 357 Magnum using 125 grain jacketed hollow points.*

Answer 20

People can die when they think they've been shot.

The report of a shot has caused other people to faint.

Animals aren't hardwired this way. The beast will not

cut itself any slack. Pistols not discharging the load

of bigger bore rifle or shotgun find smaller slugs aren't

equal when applied to big animals who lack any quit.

An exception would be Saiga custom cut to 10 inches

using magazine fed semi-auto feed of 7.62x39 or the

12 gauge magazine fed buck 'n slugs of semi-auto.

One shot/one kill would be best because Saiga recoil

as custom pistols is going to throw the reader around.