is there any way a gun manufacturer would know if I fired 38 +p ?

Question

357 is a higher pressure than 38+p but I called eaa about the windicator and they said 38+p would void the warranty on a 357. Let's say I fire 38+p out of it and something happens to the weapon would they know I fired 38+p or could I get away with saying it was 357 I fired out of it

Answer 1

I guess I'll chime in and clarify.



Fact: The EAA Windicator is a revolver that is made in BOTH .38 Special AND .357 Magnum

Given: There is manufacturer literature which states the use of .38 +P will void the warranty.



Logic: In their .38 Special revolvers, they may not be comfortable with the higher pressure of the .38 Special +P round being used, and therefore they state that such behavior voids the warranty.



However, the literature provided may be for BOTH firearms, so there is no logical discernment between the .38 Special Windicator and the .357 Magnum Windicator. As you have noted, .357 Magnum is significantly higher pressure than .38 Special +P. Were it me, I would shoot .38 +P's in a .357 Mag all day every day --but that's ME, and honestly, for a gun like this I also WOULD NOT CARE whether or not I voided a "warranty" on something this cheap. No offense meant.



Several answerers gave you absolutely accurate information, in that when you fire a .38 special cartridge in a .357 magnum chamber, there will be a residue ring in the chamber at the location of the case mouth, clearly indicating the length of the cartridge. And while it is theoretically possible to clean your gun so that most of the residue is removed, there still remains some indication of it -- ever try to clean the blast marks off the front of a revolver cylinder? That's kind of what I mean.



I'd also like to point out that Zipper sounds clueless because I think he has confused the .38 Special +P cartridge with the .38 Super. The .38 Super is an autoloader cartridge which CAN be fired in a .357 Mag cylinder, but it isn't recommended for many of the reasons Ziggy mentioned. I've done it...no big deal. The pressures are compatible for a few rounds and they'd work in an emergency.



Nonetheless, the point is that yes, a manufacturer with access to diagnostic equipment and the ability to test tolerances and surfaces on any part of their firearms will be able to tell.. However, once again, as WRG mentions about Magnuson-Ross, they would have to prove that your doing that was what caused the part to fail, and, let's face it, if your .357 Mag fails because you shot .38 Special +P in it, you're lucky you're not dead.



Let's do some fun math, shall we?

Pressure for .38 Special: 17,000 psi

Pressure for .38 Special +P: 20,000 psi

Pressure for .357 Magnum: 35,000 psi

And, just for fun,

Pressure for .38 Super +P: 36,500 psi



So, don't use .38 Super in any EAA revolver. Pretty simple, right? LOL.



The other thing you could do is call up EAA and ask them for clarification, becuase it's obvious their manual was written for both versions of their Windicator, one of which is NOT rated for the .38 special +P, and the other which HAS to be because the cartridge it IS rated for is of higher pressure.



But get someone at EAA to explain that one to you, as I am not a lawyer and my advice is worth what you paid for it.



PS: The .357 I fired the .38 Supers in was an L-frame .357 -- and while I'm no gunsmith, I also don't advocate other people being as stupid as me, or stupider. I'm kind of at the "stupid" threshold. The L-frame is robust enough to handle the 1500 psi overpressure IN MY OPINION -- doesn't mean it's a good idea.



And that's not really relevant to the discussion here which really is about the .38 SPECIAL +P cartridge and the EAA Windicator REVOLVER model.



Bottom line: Call EAA and make them clarify their position.

Answer 2

While it is possible that a inspection would show that a 38 special had been shot in the 357 magnum because of the very slight difference in length, there'd be no way of telling if it was a regular pressure or +P round.



I think whoever you talked to at Windicator didn't know what they were talking about. It was probably just someone they hired to answer the phone and read off of a script. Shooting a +P 38 special in a regular 38 special often will void any warranty, but as you point out a 357 magnum is much higher pressure than +P 38 spl, so saying the weaker round somehow voids the warranty is absolutely ridiculous.



The other option is they were dead serious, and the philosophy is to make actually USING the lifetime warranty nearly impossible by placing a pile of dumb restrictions on it.



A lifetime warranty isn't much of a selling option if it is too onerous to ever use.

Answer 3

They could tell because the .38 Special is a shorter round than the .357 so it leaves the powder residue in the chamber area at the lip of the brass instead of past it. You can see it with a bore scope and if you were running +P they would be able to tell from that residue and the blast marks around it.



Why would you do this anyway? +P isn't cheaper than .357.





Thinkingblade



Edit: Lime Green gives you a pretty complete answer - and is probably right regarding the manual being written for both revolvers.



So, out of curiosity I wandered out to the EAA website to see what it actually says ... which is the standard disclaimer:



"The use of reloaded, Super-Vel, +P, high pressure or hand loaded ammunition can be dangerous and will void the warranty."



So, that manual is generic to the .22LR, .22WMR, .38 Special, and .357 Magnum. So, this disclaimer is a general peanut buttering of "don't shoot stupid loads" in your gun. If you are running a .357 Magnum, and shoot some .38 Special +P ammo in it, it's not going to hurt anything.



I've never worked with their warranty department, but I would probably say that I wouldn't worry about it overly much. If the gun fails while you are doing normal stuff, then I suspect they will take care of it rather than lawyer up. In the age of the internet bad press can spread too easily not to.

Answer 4

That Windicator only comes in 2" and 4" barrels - that is not enough barrel to really make much difference at all between regular 38 Special and +P.



If I smacked your right thumb really hard with a 16 ounce hammer, and, then smacked your left thumb really hard with a 18 ounce hammer...... hard enough to break the bones in both thumbs..... do you think you would be able to tell which of the hammers was the heaviest? I sure would not be able to tell.



From a 2" or 4" barrel all you can expect from +P is perhaps more unburned powder making a bigger flash from the muzzle. It's not like the difference between a small soda and a 64 ounce biggie. It's more like a quarter pounder vs a quarter pounder with cheese thing.



If you worked at a big rock quary you would not use a little Ford Ranger to make deliveries. You would use a use truck that was up to the task. Same with guns. If your intent is to run hot loads all the time - then you dont go with a light duty firearm like EAA - you move up to a name brand that can take the abuse. EAA are great if you live in the city, carry concealed, and dont shoot more than a few rounds a year to verify it works. You live out in the boonies, shoot hot loads all the time, and enjoy your range time - you buy a gun that is designed for more than casual use. Otherwise you are going to wear it out prematurely and end up having to buy a new gun in a few months.

Answer 5

There is a reason they say don't fire +P ammo. It is always a good idea to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. The frame and cylinder may not be strong enough to withstand repeated use of higher pressure ammunition. Besides, there is absolutely NO reason to shoot +P .38 Special, just get a .357 instead.

Answer 6

I wouldn't do it but not because of the warranty. I would do it because experts with that particular gun don't think it is safe.



In fact, the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act would require that they (EAA) prove that whatever problem you have under the warranty was caused by the use of +P ammo.



All that being said, I've owned hundreds of guns in my life and with the exception of a post build tunings I've never had to send a gun for warranty work.

Answer 7

The only way they would be able to tell is if extra finish inside the cylinder is eroded away at the front.



I have a different take on warranties. If you are satisfied with the way your gun is performing right now, it is very unlikely you will ever need any warranty work.

Remember when the car companies used to make durable cars, they had a one year warranty, but the companies that developed a reputation for building crap now have the longest warranties.

Answer 8

And just what do you think is going to happen shooting a .38 SP +P in a revolver. Just go for it. If EEA can't tell the difference between the force of a +P and a .357 Mag, what makes you think they can tell what you shot in it?

Answer 9

Zipper has 100% zero clue what he's talking about.



Yes, they will be able to tell if you used .38 specials in it.



They will have no clue whether they were +P or not though, if that's the issue.



Then again, it's a .357, so using +P .38 is kind of pointless.

Answer 10

If you haven't already bought the gun ...don't. Spend your money on a quality used pistol such as a S&W or a Ruger. I agree that's a silly restriction. On the other hand why would you want to fire +P in a .357? It's no cheaper than .357 rounds.

Answer 11

Seems simple to me.You want to shoot .38 +P don't buy EAA. I would not buy EAA anyway.

Answer 12

Yes being a shorter round, it would leave powder burns on the fire-ring chamber walls were a 357 mag could not leave them. They would then know that you were firing the wrong ammo in the gun and void the warranty. Yet some Manufacturer's do list 38 Special as acceptable replacement ammo in their 357 mags. But they can tell from the location of the powder burns if other than 357 was being used in the gun. Also 38+P is a semi-auto round and the rimmed on the cartage will leave marks and can get jammed in the fire-ring chamber as well.